Steve tests some of the games AMD cherry picks to serve it's needs, they don't find any such gains. Next you'll claim they didn't lie about 5800/5900XT gaming performance. I've been defending AMD but wasn't aware of their performance claims which are in their official slides.
Steve is using DDR5 CL30 memory, AMD's own sweetspot memory. I've been critical of his headlines, especially seeing we don't have the full release of cpu's yet, but this is on AMD. Wrong names and wrong prices and they supply the reviewers with kits, so it's up to them to ensure they use the best settings.
Wow, this has turned into an AMD fan forum very quickly! To summarize: why nobody wants to use tech that AMD believes in? PBO is great, but so what if it is not, this isn't a gaming processor. They didn't lie, unless you can reproduce every detail like the biased software of their benchmarks. The gains are more than enough, but nobody wants to pay what AMD is asking....
Technicals aside, the question is: would you buy it and would you advise people to buy it? Because whatever mind-blowing tech and excellent gains you claim they have it has to be worth of their asking price. Ok, I may know your answer: I don't need it atm, maybe down the road, who knows, maybe never, but everyone else should buy it at this price, it's a good price for what they are offering. Is that correct? Because if it isn't your point is void.Or perhaps forum writers actually know more about this CPU than Techspot staff? AMD said long time ago Zen5 should have much better AVX512 performance than Zen4. Now it's confirmed that is true. Techspot has written two articles where it failed to even mention AVX512! AMD "fanboys" keep facts together, like it or not.
Technicals aside, the question is: would you buy it and would you advise people to buy it? Because whatever mind-blowing tech and excellent gains you claim they have it has to be worth of their asking price. Ok, I may know your answer: I don't need it atm, maybe down the road, who knows, maybe never, but everyone else should buy it at this price, it's a good price for what they are offering. Is that correct? Because if it isn't your point is void.
I think you understood what I implied, but choose to ignore it. I was referring if it is a good buy from last gen. That is the question Techspot has asked. And if you say, well, at a certain time maybe, then it is not. You also argue, well, only the tech improvement matters, but being worth in real life depends on personal preference. Really? Also, your argument for not making Zen 5 faster and better is just rubbish. If it competes with Zen 4 with little to no advantage then it's pointless.CPU technical improvement and "who should buy it" are totally different things. CPU may be "bad buy" for some people but for some it may be only viable option.
Also price is something that will definitely change when time goes on. CPU stays basically same (later ones are better binned probably as manufacturing process matures) but price will very probably come down. Zen5 may be bad buy right now but it could be excellent buy few months later. Pricing change , CPU don't (at least, a lot).
As I said elsewhere (this thread or other), Zen5 competes with Zen4 since both fit AM5 socket. It makes zero sense for AMD to make Zen5 both faster and cheaper, then nobody would buy Zen4. That is cost of having same socket for long time. Price you just have to accept. Because only solution for problem would be new socket for Zen5...
I think you understood what I implied, but choose to ignore it. I was referring if it is a good buy from last gen. That is the question Techspot has asked. And if you say, well, at a certain time maybe, then it is not. You also argue, well, only the tech improvement matters, but being worth in real life depends on personal preference. Really? Also, your argument for not making Zen 5 faster and better is just rubbish. If it competes with Zen 4 with little to no advantage then it's pointless.
It's rather amusing to read about "Misleading comparisons and misconceptions" when basically the whole mainstream tech journalism testing methods are producing just that. I'm sorry that I have to flog this dead horse yet again, but using only the extreme high end of CPU/GPU for testing is what this sub header should refer to, not some hair splitting over PBO (ok, that's important too, or could be, if the main point of contention was fixed to start with).
I know that many people struggle with grasping this, so please consider this simple example: let's say Tom's Hardware et al found that 9600X is on average 21% faster in 1440p than some other comparable CPU (it's just an example so don't get your dander up if the figures are wrong). Well, cool, for somebody like me who's looking to upgrade from 5600X, that's a significant uplift. I go out and buy the whole spanking new AM5 rig, go home, stick my 4070 Super in and.... see 5% (or less) gains?
This is what using only 4090, an extreme outlier, does for testing. It could be similar for GPU, using only top CPU in test bed. It's misinformation, pure and simple. The fps do not necessarily scale across the hardware spectrum and not including a lower range CPU or GPU will very often produce misleading results.
In this case TS kinda gets away with it because it's plain to see that if 4090 only gets minimal gains in 1080p then clearly it won't improve in higher res. But I did not see it mentioned anywhere in the article and suppose that it's just the chosen new style for TS benchmarking. It's rather worrying for the future articles and makes quotes like these:
"we want to point out the obvious: TechSpot and Hardware Unboxed are aimed at enthusiasts and PC gamers. You won't find us running a single 40-application benchmark here, but you will find countless big 40+ gaming benchmarks comparing various CPUs and GPUs."
....kinda silly. Where are these amazing reviews comparing various CPUs and GPUs in the same article? I recall one (1) from a few months back, it was indeed very good and gave me hope, which faded fast after that. And, I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter if you include 4 or 40 games in your test when your testing method is botched to start with.
Though, like I said, it's obviously not only TS but almost everyone. The couple of outlets like AnandTech or PC Mag which used 4080/3080 for this test also inexplicably omitted 1440p (the former, but they included 720p, wtf) or used some old irrelevant games (the latter).
Well, guess I'll wait to see if tom's hardware prints a retraction of their 21% FPS gains average at 1080P for the 9700X PBO over 7700X. https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-ryzen-5-9600x-cpu-review/2
You having a giggle? Toms Hardware are about as renowned as LTT. As in both are a joke. It'd make as much sense to get your tech news from the Daily Mail.
It seems like Tom's Hardware also set an overclock and CO Curve of -20 to get those results.Well, guess I'll wait to see if tom's hardware prints a retraction of their 21% FPS gains average at 1080P for the 9700X PBO over 7700X. https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-ryzen-5-9600x-cpu-review/2
For example TS shows a virtual tie between 9700X and 7700X in Watch Dogs at 1080P Ultra/4090: TH shows a 19% FPS gain with same settings with PBO (which TS states shows no gains), also with 4090:
Could Techspot post your test system config for the 9600X and 9700X? This should be standard practice for benchmarking. A simple explanation could be the motherboard used isn't updated correctly for PBO support.
This is interesting, at least moving toward an explanation.I noticed you gave kudos to TechPowerUp's review and discussed their findings. Don't suppose you caught this article on there: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-9700x-performance-smt-disabled/ ? There might be more left in the tank on the 9700x after all. Wouldn't be the first time the microcode was the problem.
Intel is already broken it needs no help, it's doing perfectly blowing itself up.Intel really needed a break! Thanks AMD!
Example 1 ... You check benchmarks for your games that use a 4070 and 7800X3D, you find that your processor is delivering the same frames for 4070 in the games you care about ...
Long story short, AMD failed to deliver this time. After all the hype, disappointing really.
Excuse me, but where do I find these amazing benchmarks for new processors, seeing as they mostly use different criteria, and so the examples you quote here are mostly as useful as reading tea leaves?They are testing the processor not the graphics card. In order to fully give you the absolute best frames the processor can push at 1080p, they need to use the best GPU. If your GPU limited at 1080p on your current processor, then a new processor won't do you much good. It is your responsibility to do the research.
Example 1, you have a 4070 and looking for new CPU - You check benchmarks for your games that use a 4070 and 7800X3D, you find that your processor is delivering the same frames for 4070 in the games you care about - conclusion, you don't need a new processor
Example 2, you have a 5800X with a 4070, you check benchmarks for 4070 for your games where reviewer is using 4070 and 7800X3D. You find that the games you play could be 10% faster at 1080p, however you play at 1440p and the uplift at 1440p is only 2% - conclusion, you don't need a new processor
Example 3, you have a 5800X with a 4080, you check benchmarks for the 4080 that is using a 7800X3D, you see that even at 4K you are losing 5-20% performance in the games you're playing. Some games you are even getting a whole tier less performance out of your GPU. You want to see which processor is right for the 4080, so you then check CPU benchmarks to determine the best processor for you, you notice that the 9700X cost as much as the 7800X3D, but delivers less performance in games, but better productivity. You then have to make a choice, best gaming processor, or better productivity and decent gaming processor? --- You choose 7800X3D as your computer is 90% for gaming...